>> i'm in the mayor's office. >> both mayor moscone and supervisor harvey milk have been shot and killed. who >> who on earth would want to kill george mosconi? >> please. suspect that the supervisor, dan white. it was a devastating moment. >> your father is dead. he's been killed. the air changed forever. he assassinated a phenomenon that is rare in american politics. this abc7 committed to building a better bay area this week with george stephanopoulos "this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. >> reversal. hours before a shutdown, speaker kevin mccarthy clinches a short-term deal to fund the government through mid-november. >> we kept the government open to finish the job we have to get done. >> the american people have won. the extreme maga republicans

have lost. >> after relying on democratic votes, has mccarthy put his job at risk? >> kevin mccarthy has been a failure. kevin mccarthy has not fulfilled his promises. >> this morning we're live on capitol hill. plus, both sides of the house republican divide, mccarthy critic matt gaetz and moderate mark lawler and president biden's budget director shalanda young. uphill battle. >> the america-first agenda does not belong to one man. >> every time i hear you i feel a little bit dumber. >> did any candidate dent the absent front runner? >> donald trump is missing in action. >> you're not here tonight because you're afraid. >> our powerhouse roundtable weighs in. trail blazer -- >> we will go to washington, and we will perform. >> senator dianne feinstein dies at age 90 after a career of historic firsts.

>> an historic figure. >> dianne was a trail blazer. >> her integrity shone like a beacon. >> her legacy will be a long one. >> we remember the life of america's longest serving female senator. from abc news, it's "this week." here now, jonathan karl. good morning. welcome to "this week." we have just witnessed an extraordinary 24 hours in the house of representatives as the u.s. government seemed on the brink of a lengthy government shutdown, speaker of the house kevin mccarthy making a decision to move forward with a bill that many of his fellow republicans opposed. the bill, which required a two-thirds super majority, passed. but take a look at the final tally. only 126 republicans voted yes, 90 voted no. it's only passed because it had the overwhelming support of house democrats. president biden has now signed the bill into law. but, remember, this is just a

temporary measure keeping the government open for 45 days with no progress whatsoever for a long-term deal. mccarthy avoided a drawn-out shutdown for now by ditching almost everything that he had promised conservatives and getting a lifeline from democrats. now there's a real question of whether that move will cause hard-line republicans to try to remove him as speaker of the house. abc's senior congressional correspondent rachel scott has been on capitol hill all week tracking it all. good morning, rachel. >> reporter: john, good morning. president biden signed that bill with just 45 minutes to spare. it was a squeak of uncertainty and chaos that ended with democrats and republicans finally coming together on a short-term deal to keep the government funded. this was far from what speaker kevin mccarthy wanted. he said he exhausted every single option trying to get the far right wing of his party on the same page, even trying to tie border funding to this fight. in the end, it feels never enough. with time running out, he turned to democrats.

he put this measure on the floor that would keep the government funded until november 17th and add $16 billion in disaster aid. more dms voted for that bill than republicans. it passed the senate with sweeping bipartisan support. neither side got everything they wanted here. no border security for republicans, no ukraine aid for democrats, and most notably, no long-term solution so we could be right back here having this fight all over again in about 45 days, john. >> so, rachel, bottom line, does this put mccarthy's job as speaker in peril? >> reporter: john, it sure seems that way. those hard-line conservatives made clear from the beginning of this that if mccarthy tried to work with democrats on a deal, they would try to oust him as speaker. mccarthy responding to those threats, saying, bring it on. >> rachel scott on capitol hill. thank you. joining us is republican congressman matt gaetz of florida, who has been kevin mccarthy's chief antagonist in all of this. i want to start with what you've saying all along, that you would

move toous him as speaker, and what mccarthy said just yesterday. take a listen. >> it's all right if democrats and republicans join together to do what is right. if somebody wants to make a motion against me, bring it. there has to be an adult in the room. >> are, going to do it? are you going to move to oust him? >> kevin mccarthy is going to get his wish. i don't think the adult in the room would allow america to sit atom a $33 trillion debt, facing $2.2 trillion annual deficits. i don't think the adult in the room would allow $8 trillion of this debt to come into refinancing at a higher level without serious spending cuts. and i don't think the adult in the room would lie to house conservatives. and that is exactly what kevin mccarthy did. >> january to get the speakership, he had to agree to certain guardrails on spending and a process to put downward

pressure on spending. since the mid-90s, we've been controlled by continuing resolution and omnibus spending bills. that means that america's lawmakers take one up-or-down vote on the funding of the entire government. that is crazy. that is the reason we're $33 trillion in debt. we want to move the single-subject spending bills. he made that commitment, he broke it, and if at this time next week kevin mccarthy is still speaker of the house, it will be because the democrats bailed him out and he can be their speaker, not mine. >> when do you make this move? >> you'll be seeing it this week. that's why i came on the show "this week." >> it takes only one person, obviously you, to call for a vote to remove him. so-called motion to vacate. but you would need a majority to remove him, which means you're going to need democrats to remove him. do you really think democrats will vote to remove him because he made a deal with democrats? >> no. i actually think democrats will bail out kevin mccarthy. this is an exercise to show the american people who really

governs you and how that governing occurs. i'll on a mission to change it. kevin mccarthy is off making a secret deal on ukraine as he's baiting republicans to vote for a continuing resolution that doesn't include ukraine. so, the one thing democrats, republicans, the white house, that we all have in common, is that kevin mccarthy at one point or another has lied to all of us. but if they want to keep him, then he belongs to them. >> so you're not accomplishing anything here. >> that's not true. >> you don't have the votes to remove him, so -- >> by the way, i don't know until we have them. and i might not have them the first time but i might before t the 15th time, which is the number he needed. >> you'll keep going through this process over and over? >> i am relentless. if all the american people sees is that it is a unit government that governs them and it is the biden, mccarthy government that

makes dispositive decisions on spending, i am seeding the fields of future primary contest tolles get better republicans in washington who will tackle these deficits and debts. >> if you somehow succeed, who would be the speaker? >> we have a lot of talented people in our conference. obviously, it's an awkward discussion while our number two, steve scalise, is in treatment for blood cancer. so i'm not going to the pass somebody over because they're getting a medical treatment. i want to see how steve ska leels comes out of that. >> i wanted to listen to what hakeem jeffries said after -- >> kevin's new boss. let's listen. >> it was a victory for the american people and a complete and total surrender by right-wing extremists who, throughout the year, have tried to hijack the congress. >> i guess you agree with part of that. you agree it was a total surrender? >> no.

it wasn't a vepdvepder by the m crowd. we lost. here's what i've observed in the 118th congress -- on matters of frivolity or messaging bills, kevin mccarthy is fine partnering with house conservatives. but whenever it comes to the money, right, the debt limit, the budget process, kevin mccarthy's true coalition partner is hakeem jeffries. >> you've faced some criticism from fellow conservatives on this who say you are the one that basically knee cammed mccarthy because he tried to do a bill that included changes in border policy. he tried to do a bill that would have cut some spending. this is what erick erickson said after the bill passed -- "conservatives got the whole of the house gop to agree to cut the government by 8% as the opening negotiation with the senate. but matt gaetz decided his grudge against speaker mccarthy was more important, so he helped scuttle cuts, and now the

government is going to grow." they're saying this is your fault. >> the cuts -- that was a mirage. the biden administration had already put out a statement of administration policy they were going to veto that. the senator said they weren't going to take it up. this is about what turf we battle on to reduce spending. i do not believe we'll ever reduce spending if the manner of negotiation is just what is the condition or the ornament that we're going to hang on to a continuing resolution. since the mid-90s, this government has been ruled by continuing resolution or omnibus bill. that's why we're $33 trillion in debt. my plan so go into single-subject spending bills would allow us to put that downward pressure. and i've acknowledged that in divided government you have to work with senate democrats, you have to work with the white house. but i don't think you should work with them on a continuing resolution or omnibus bill. you should make those senate democrats have to take up our defense bill to get troops a raise, take up our homeland security bill to make changes at the border, take up the veterans bill. if they did, people have to vote

on specific programs rather than saying i voted for the government funding bill and sure, there's stuff with the department of education i don't like, but i had to be there. >> i know you say this is not perm with kevin mccarthy. but it sure sounds personal. >> i'm talking about sub tan ti ti -- substantive issues. >> let me ask about the relationship. when was the last time you talked with him one-on-one? >> just a couple weeks ago kevin mccarthy appointed me to the national defense conference dmoo committee and we spoke about some of our alliances and defense priorities. this isn't personal. some people make policy disagreements personal because their own policy failures are so personally embarrassing to them. i hold no personal animus to any of my republican colleagues, including who you'll have on next, who's had pretty terse words for me. but at the end of the day, this is about spending. this is about the deal kevin made in january. i do resent the fact kevin is

owned by lobbyists and special interests. >> that's personal. >> it's not personal. it's integrity. it is an attack on the system that he has used to obtain the speakership. i am fighting for a different system, one based on spending guardrails, agreements on process. kevin promised us 72 hours to read the bill. we didn't have it. promised $100 million wouldn't go onto the suspension agenda without amendments. broke that deal too. he promised to return to precovid spending levels. there is almost no promise he hasn't violated. >> thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> kevin mccarthy weighed in on the challenges to his speakership after the vote yesterday. >> but i'm going to be a conservative that gets things done for the american public. and whatever that holds, so be it, because i believe in not giving up on america. i'm not going to be beholden to somebody who portrays and does something else. >> joining us now to discuss is

republican congressman mike lawler of new york. thank you for joining us, congressman lawler. i know you're very much a defender of kevin mccarthy throughout all of this. you sup poport what's your reaction to matt gaetz who wants to remove him as speaker this week? >> i think what i just heard is a diatribe of delusional thinking. look, we're in a divided government, and in a divided government, any final bill is going to have bipartisan support. it needs to pass the senate, and it needs to be signed by the president. nobody in our conference disagrees with the need to do single-subject spending bills. nobody disagrees with the need to cut spending. in fact, it's one of the biggest reasons why i ran. joe biden and his administration increased spend big over $5 trillion in just two years. as matt pointed out, our national debt is $33 trillion.

it's unsustainable. but when you're trying to break the system, trying to reform it, it takes time. we have been doing the work over the last few months, going line by line, budget bill by budget bill, finding ways to cut spending and reform the system. but we were not able to complete that work by september 30th, which was the end of the fiscal year. and so, to shut down the government would inflict pain on the american people and it would hurt an already fragile economy because bidenomics has failed. the responsible thing to do was to keep the government open and funded while we complete our work. and i agree with matt. we need to finish all 12 appropriations bills. the senate has not passed one single bill. but by putting this motion to vacate on the floor, you know what matt gaetz is going to do? he's going to delay the ability to complete that work over the next 45 days. and just like he and some of my

colleagues did during the past three weeks, they delayed the process by voting down the rules, violating our conference rules. they delayed the process by refusing to come to an agreement within the conference on a conservative cr that would have cut spending by 8% and enacted border security. they are the reason that we had to work together yesterday with house democrats to pass a cr. thals not the fault of kevin mccarthy. that's the fault of matt gaetz. >> i think it's important to point out you talk about the debt, which obviously is a huge problem, $7.8 trillion of that dealt was added under the presidency of donald trump. but what is going to ham? what do you anticipate? we saw 90 republicans vote against this bill to keep the government running, even though mccarthy talked about it as essential, clearly to a degree a

vote of a lack of confidence in mccarthy's leadership. do you think republicans join -- how many republicans join gaetz in that motion to vacate? >> no, i don't think that was a lack of confidence in the speaker's leadership. we have a lot of people in our conference who have never voted for a cr. that's their prerogative. that's their right as elected representatives of their districts. but we have to work together as a team. we have 221 republicans. we need 218 votes to pass legislation through the house floor. putting a motion to vacate forward in defiance of conference rules, which requires a majority of the majority -- so, you know, i hear matt constantly talking about the need to follow regular order, follow conference rules. kevin mccarthy lied, he violated this, violated that. matt gaetz voted against the choice for speaker of the conference. he voted to take down rules. and now he's putting a motion to vacate on the floor in defiance

of conference rules, which require asthma joe torre of the majority. so, you know, this is a guy who says one thing out of one side of his mouth and speaks another thing out of the other side. he's mealey mouth and frankly duplicitous. >> what's your message to hakeem jeffries and your democratic colleagues on this? because if they vote with matt gaetz and gaetz only needs to have a handful of republicans, he can remove speaker kevin mccarthy. so what's your message to democrats about whether or not to go along with that? >> well, ultimately, democrats are going to make a decision for themselves. i think it is destructive to the country to put forth this motion to vacate. we have a lot of work to do. the american people elected a house republican majority to serve as a check and balance on the biden agenda and the administration's reckless

spending. the only way to do that is to complete our appropriations work. we have 45 days to do it. senate democrats have not passed one single appropriations bill through the senate floor. we are dealing with a crisis at our southern border, and it is impacting my home state of new york like it has southern border states. we need to get border security. chuck schumer has done absolutely nothing when it comes to dealing with the crisis amount our border. house republicans have passed hr-2. we need to use the appropriations process as the vehicle to get border security for the american people, crack down on this massive influx of migrants coming into our country, and reform our immigration system long term. but this will all be torpedoed by one person who wants to put a motion to vacate for personal, political reasons, and undermine the will of the conference and the american people who elected

a republican majority to govern. >> one of the reasons why the senate has not passed any of those appropriations bills is because there have been republicans that have prevented the vote from going forward. mike laumer of new york, thank you very much for joining us. we'll talk to you again soon. the roundtable is coming up. at ameriprise financial, our advice is personalized, based on your goals, whatever they may be. all that planning has paid off. looks like you can make this work. we can make this work. and the feeling of confidence that comes from our advice? i can make this work. that seems to be universal. i can make this work. i can make this work. no wonder more than 9 out of 10 clients are likely to recommend us. because advice worth listening to is advice worth talking about. ameriprise financial. new nature's bounty hair growth. help grow thicker, fuller hair with just one capsule a day of

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our message is simple -- house republicans should stick to the agreement we already reached and they already voted for, do the job they were elected to do. enough is enough. a deal is a deal. extreme house republicans need to stop playing political games with people's lives. >> president biden's budget director shalanda young friday urging house republicans to uphold the budget deal she helped negotiate with president biden back in the spring.

shalanda young joins us right now. >> thank you. >> thank you for being here. so, tell me, it looked like a shutdown was happening, at least everybody was anticipating it, and mccarthy went forward and defied many in his own party to keep the government operating. does kevin mccarthy deserve credit? >> let me tell you, whew, why? why the brinksmanship? why the theater? why to the last minute? i will tell you, if i'm sick of it, i can only imagine what the american people are feeling. why go down this road, take us so close? let me tell you, there were 200 democrats who saved us from shutdown. go look at the votes. democrats stemd up, made sure the government continued running, and we appreciate the speaker upholding the budget deal we all agreed to this summer. >> certainly this wouldn't have happened without democrats, but mccarthy had to go forward with this, even facing threats to his

job. so, i mean, does he, late or not, deserve credit for that? >> that's the job of the speaker. i worked in the house a long time, saw masterful speaker work in speaker pelosi. that's the job of speaker, put the american people before anything else. keep your end of the bargain. keep your end of the deal. we had a deal. i appreciate the speaker keeping it, but, boy, vote after vote after vote, 30% cuts, want fire 123,0,000 fbi acts. when none of that worked, finally putting the bill on the floor that served the american people and kept his end of the bargain. >> i know you're not on the hill anymore, you're in the white house. but let me ask you if the renegade republicans move forward with their threats to try to remove the speak of the house because he worked with democrats, do you think democrats should go along with that? obviously, it would require democrats to vote to remove him as well. >> let me tell you, i'm going to leave that to my former

colleagues on the hill. absolutely not. this is what i appreciate being the budget director for the president of the united states. i'll leave the intrigue of what happened. but let me tell you, showing up for the american people, making sure that women and children can get nutrition, making sure the faa can continue to operate, making sure we have disaster relief funding, and for 47 days? that's what we're talking about? that's the easy part. it should not be this difficult to do what most americans think is congress' basic job. >> this bill has $16 billion for emergency relief. but it doesn't have money obviously for ukraine. how confident are you, is the president, that ukraine funding will pass? we've seen a majority of house republicans now on record opposing more funding for ukraine. >> well, you've also seen over the past week a coalition of democrats and republicans who have voted in the house to

ensure that they cannot remove ukraine funding from the defense bill. so, we've seen the coalition. we've seen that the majority of congress still supports ukraine. we've seen that the majority of congress understands what's at stake in ukraine. who are you for, western democratic values or dictators like vladimir putin? so, i'm confident, because i've seen the proof in votes of republicans and democrats who have voted to make sure we keep our commitment. those volts are there. we know there's a willing coalition. and i certainly expect members and the speaker to keep their commitment not to us but the ukrainian people we told we would be there. >> mccarthy has also made a commitment to republicans that he wouldn't bring up bills that a majority of them oppose. so, you have to trust mccarthy to keep his commitment with you but not his commitment to republicans. he's in a tough spot here. >> it's a tough job. >> what's going to happen in 45

or as you pointed out 47 days, technically? i mean, are we going to be back here at this same spot? >> let me tell you, we need to start today to make sure that we do not have this brinksmanship, last-minute anxiousness of the american people. let's do our jobs to not have this happen again. let also have full-year funding bills at the end of this 47 days. let's not do this again. >> do you vefince in mccarthy to deliver on what he agreed to in the debt ceiling bill? >> speaker mccarthy is one member. you saw a coalition of mostly democrats and republicans who say enough is enough. that's what that vote was yesterday. that's what that vote was. the house sent strong bipartisan votes that people want to do the right thing. we have to use that coalition of bipartisan members to start work now to make sure we aren't in this place again.

>> all right. shalanda young, omb director, thank you for joining us. the roundtable is next. we reflect on the life and legacy of dianne feinstein with her first appearance on this program. there's a simple test you can take—from anywhere. try to lay your hand flat against a surface. if you can't, you may have dupuytren's contracture. talk to a hand specialist about your options, including nonsurgical treatments.

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chase. make more of what's yours. the senate lost an historic figure on friday with the death of senator dianne feinstein. feinstein was a trail blazer in american politics, the first female president of san francisco's board of supervisors. she became the first woman to serve as mayor of san francisco after the shocking assassination of two of her colleagues. she went on to become the first woman elected to the senate from california and ultimately the longest serving female senator in american history, making her mark on a wide range of issues including gun violence, national security, intelligence, and women's rights. dianne feinstein appeared on this show many times over the years. here is a look at her very first appearance 33 years ago with david brinkley when she was running for governor of

california, part of a wave of women running for higher office, breaking barriers, and determined to reshape american politics. >> we know there's been cynicism particularly about the u.s. congress and to some extent all public leaders. are women able to change that? will they be? would they be? >> oh, i think it depends on the effectiveness of the woman. i think that part of acting in government is to be effective and that that's the bottom line. and once you reach a level of high effectiveness, then i think you ohm all kinds of doors. i think there's a certain symbolic value, a certain practical value of a woman's candidacy. but i think the bottom line is just plain being effective. this is american infrastructure. megawatts of power, rails and open road, and essential services of every kind.

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matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire the national debt. he voted for the spending. >> you voted for -- >> to make that a -- >> 12 years. where have you been? where have you been? 12 years. we've waited. >> i have voted -- here's what you've done. >> here's the thing that i find interesting. >> why don't you respond? >> all these guys have said -- i appreciate a lot of the things they're saying. >> some uplifting moments from the second republican primary debate. one of the things we'll discuss with the roundtable, joined by former dnc chair donna brazile, "the dispatch" senior editor, sarah isgur, rick klein, and raichel baits. big moment. matt gaetz is going to do what

he's been threatening, trying to remove speaker mccarthy. what happens? >> the democrats in some form or fashion end up saving kevin mccarthy. there are some procedural things that have to happen if and when he does this this week, but the end result is kevin mccarthy will certainly be speaker and because democrats helped him out, just as they bailed him out last night. that bill does not pass without the help of democrats. kevin mccarthy knew that going through the series. it may be worth to him, the price of keeping the job, but it is going to be a different speakership when democrats help. >> does that change the nature of his speakership because he's now elected, i guess, not removed by a bipartisan vote? >> not quite, but from the perspective of matt gaetz and some of his colleagues, yes, this is going to be another strong talking point against mccarthy. but they don't have another option. so, in some sense, this is already the nature of his speakership, how he got the job

originally, cutting deals with his own colleagues, and at some point having to rely on the idea we just have to govern as opposed to making a point. >> rachel, it takes one vote to call for a vote to remove him, the motion to vacate. but then what actually happens? >> procedurally, they'll try to table it, which basically means they'll try to send it to committee. i believe you only have a few democrats to d that. there's a big difference between mccarthy making deals with fellow republicans and then making deals with democrats. i think the idea of democrats bailing mccarthy out is a lot easier said than done. i mean, they're going to face a lot of pressure. any democrat who is vote to help him are going to face serious pressure back home because there's a primary challenge. this is a guy who single-handedly resurrected trump after january 6th. he went back on his deal with the white house. he's impeaching joe biden. are democrats really going to save this guy? then you also have to think about this is going to come with a price. if democrats are going to help him, they'll want something.

they'll either want the impeachment, you know, put aside and put on hold or stopped completely. they'll want a power-sharing agreement. if mccarthy gives them what they want on this, he's going to start to lose support from conservatives. so even though -- say gaetz puts up four or five votes originally of republican who is want to oust him, if he becomes a speaker supported by democrats, every day that gaetz puts a motion to vacate on the floor, he'll probably lose more and more support because other republicans are going to say you can't be speaker -- >> lost 90 votes on the spending bill. >> right. >> donna, we just heard from saying she would love to vote to remove kevin mccarthy as speaker. that's at least one progressive vote joined with matt gaetz to remove mccarthy. >> right. >> how do you see it? >> as jeffries said, and i think he speaks for many democrats, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. look, speaker mccarthy -- >> we're at that bridge.

>> we're at that bridge. and why carry a wounded cat across the bridge? i mean, he cannot get consensus in his own caucus. what does he give democrats? what will he give the american people? the reason why i think it's important that we wait and see what happens within the republican caucus, can kevin bring anybody to the table? we shouldn't bail kevin out. this is about helping the american people. i mean, tonight we have air pilots and flight attendants on their jobs because of what democrats did. we have a flood insurance extens extension. >> but he brought this -- >> 209 votes from democrats. we deliver. raising the debt ceiling. we're delivering for the kids tomorrow in head start programs. this is not about saving one man. this is about preserving our country, standing up for the american people, and not giving a hoot about what happens to kevin mccarthy. >> you're with matt gaetz. >> i'm not a matt gaetz fan. i like him. i know him.

all of that good stuff. but this is about the american people. it's not about preserving one man. >> sarah? >> a few things here. one, i don't see why democrats heading into a very contentious election wouldn't want some more chaos in the house. maybe there's not an alternative. it will reflect on republicans. on the other hand, while this is an inter-republican fight going on, this says a lot broader stuff about the incentives of individual members of congress in this current era of congress than it does i think about the republican party at this point, which is you've got members who, when they get elected, aren't hiring legislative staff. they're hiring bookers for cable tv, podcasts, for social media, because the incentives are all about protecting yourself from a primary from your flank. it's small-dollar donors that have moved both these parties far more extreme than they were in the sort of pre-campaign finance reformer e ra, and we're seeing the results of that, which is a congress -- there's a burn it all down caucus in both

parties at this point. >> a couple nuggets to add on to this motion to vacate thing. we reported yesterday that nancy pelosi herself has counselled hakeem jeffries and his leadership team against bailing out mccarthy. >> he's with aoc. >> she has said -- her office in a statement said they will follow jeffries, it's his decision. but another democratic leadership aide said if jeffries wants to be speaker, he can't help mccarthy. i think it's important to talk about the republican side of things, and that is that -- >> that means mccarthy could go down. >> that's true. they don't need them all, just a few. when it gets to the actual vote to oust him, they will likely need them all. but, you know, there's a whole process they have to go through. in terms of republicans, though, we should note that i sort of wondered if matt gaetz is going to do it this week because he doesn't seem to be quite as his peak leverage in terms of going after mccarthy. he has angered a lot of conservatives by refusing to

back this continuing resolution that included steep budget cuts, a border wall fix -- >> the one that failed. >> that failed. he led the charge to take it down. that has angered people like scott perry, who is the chairman of the freedom caucus, and if you don't have people like scott perry, who, by the way, no fan of mccarthy and probably would support an effort to oust him if, you know, mccarthy was caving on long-term spending things, but i guess, you know, my point being here i'm not sure that there's a lot of how many republicans he has with him right now. >> matt gaetz is not the best face for this, even within the republican caucus. >> who's a better face, marjorie taylor greene? there's no good face in the republican party to deal with the this country. we may have people on the left that don't like certain issues within the government but they will not tank the government just to make a point. >> doesn't he deserve credit for defying so many of his party and

bringing this bill up? i mean, he is putting his speakership -- >> are you asking me to cry this morning? no. he made a deal with the president of the united states and the senate leaders, both republicans and democrats, when he raised that debt ceiling. to go back on his word -- and i'm supposed to sit up here and stand for a man who went back on his word? no. i'm not -- >> this is often republicans -- democrats would say that continuing government spending is ooh big function of congress that, you know, props for keeping the government open? >> let's remember, rick, what happens if gaetz actually succeeds and he gets 218 votes to vacate the chair. there's no speaker. and then the congress stops and nothing can happen. we saw it in january. nothing can happen at all until the they elect a new speaker, which god only knows how long

that would take. >> there's no one else stepping up to get the job. not like matt gaetz has an alternative. this is a terrible job right now. whoever gets it is going to be dealing with the same kind of dynamics for a while and in a position where they'll probably lose the majority, especially if this continues a year from now. you're only a caretaker speaker. it's october 1st. who had on their bingo cards the over/unders for the job now? it's a minor miracle he's been able to go as long as he was, and it's only by kind of scotch taping these little deals together he's able to survive. >> enough about speaker mccarthy and the house. let's turn to the campaign. we saw that debate and the sound at the beginning of the segment. it gave you a sense. i was at the reagan library. it was a mesds. >> yes. >> did it look like anybody on that stage was in a position to take on donald trump? >> oh, i mean, that was a really

important debate as we think about the gop primary and potential nominee for 2028. it just doesn't seem to have much bearing on 2024 at this point. and it was so interesting it was in the same place we had that debate eight years ago, also at the reagan library. i was with carly fiorina at that point. that's when you could see donald trump taking off, like, wait, he's going to be the nominee. this time around the debate was a mess, but interesting to me, you have donald trump, one of his senior advisers, newt gingrich all calling on the rnc to stop having these debates. >> his adviser said, tweeted out -- tonight's debate was as boring and inconsequential as the first debate and nothing that was said would change the dynamic of the pry their contest being dominated by president trump. the rnc should immediately put

an end to any further primary debates. so, rick, they're not going to do that, but there may not be many more debates. what are you hearing? there were plans for a whole series. >> the rnc i think kind of quietly has shifted plans along the way. there won't be a debate in october. they have one in november. i think -- i'm told plans are still in flux around december. it could be they limit these. right now their expectation is donald trump isn't going to show up, at least not until he absolutely need it, maybe right before the voting starts around iowa and new hampshire. but i think they have to be mindful of the fact they need to create a process for the other candidates. donald trump hasn't signed that pledge to support who the nominee is. >> would they kick him out if he didn't? >> to tough one. we were out there in simi valley, and every conversation i had with campaign strategists was the same, that we have to do this, we have to do that, but who knows if it matters? >> i have to say, having been

through a number of presidential cycle, it feels late but it's also early. i mean, iowa is not until january. donald trump is facing, sinas i understand it, some legal trouble. can we really say this is over when you have to front running candidate, you know, under indictment in four separate jurisdictions and, let's face it, volatile? he's essentially threatening the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, saying he deserves the death penalty. this is not over, is it rachel? >> i mean, look, john. i think january will be here before you blink. >> okay. all right. >> donald trump is up so far right now above these candidates that even though it is relatively early, it's hard for anyone to take over him. questions, like, these debates are entertaining. i think you get to know the candidates very well, their

personalities, some standout moments, but it doesn't make a difference at this point. >> the debates have mattered for the donors watching them. that's what the candidates will tell you. that's why you're hearing the draft glenn youngkin, the governor of virginia, at this point. these are not real. glenn youngkin cannot get into the race at this point. it is late. there are ballot deadlines coming up. so, it's haley's moments or will the donors back glenn youngkin? nope. >> the donors are pulling away from desantis. we don't have much more time left, but i want to turn to the democrats. >> it's so boring. i'm going to sleep. who cares about the -- seriously, it's inflation. that's what joe biden is to ding. >> can i ask you about bobby kennedy jr.? >> he's going as an independent. that's the word. that means he'll have to try to figure out how to get on the

ballot, how to -- there's a lot of work that goes into getting on ballots across the country. >> who does he hurt? who does he take votes away from if he gets on the ballot? >> he's getting a lot of support from republicans and republican donors who thought he could muck up our primary. i don't know. he hasn't been a consequential figure. for the last week, one of his representatives finally came to a rules and bylaws committee meeting. i don't know. maybe this week when the democratic party meets in st. louis we'll just write a resolution and say good-bye. >> rick? >> i think it's an open question whether he gets on the ballot in consequential places because it's a lot of money and a lot of time. you have to start doing it. >> he had a meeting with the libertarian party over the summer. >> there's a possibility he works with them. i don't think the no-labels folks would turn to him. it's easier to work with an existing movement. does he want to commit those resources?

if he does, he is a huge name in democratic circle, but i think people have learned a lot about him. and an override to donna's point with the same thing donald trump and republicans have believeded, i don't know if you can say who it would impact, but it's big deal to have a guy named kennedy. >> one who loves him is steve bannon. it's unclear. >> he comes from a great family. >> that is absolutely true. all right. that is all the time we have for this roundtable. coming up, federal student loan repayments restart today after a yearlong pandemic pause. shu elizabeth schulze reports. impa people who thought their loans would be forgiven, next. i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds.

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energy in progress. ♪ i believe the court ice decision to strike down my student debt relief program was a mistake, was wrong. what i did i thought was appropriate, was able to be done, and would get done. i didn't give borrower false hope, but the republicans snatched away the hope. >> that was president biden after the supreme court struck down his plan to wipe out more

than $400 million in federal student loans. it was a blow to the president and to millions of borrowers who were counting on their loans to be forgiven. abc's elizabeth schulze spoke to borrowers who now must begin making payments again after a three-year pause. >> whoa! >> reporter: for sarah woods' family of four in denver, the pause on repayment was a rare financial reprieve. >> it was a huge, huge relief. >> reporter: with her month on hold, she started putting a way savings for her twin daughters' j case. >> to my husband and i sat down and said let's put whatever we can towards our daughters' 529s. >> for hope? >> 6.7. >> reporter: that her daughters won't be burdened with student debt like hers, totalling more than $180,000. what does that number mean to

you? >> it's the thing that i am probably the most ashamed of in my life. we have tho think of and budget for every day, and we have to budget for the future consequences of this loan every single day. >> reporter: now, with payments due, woods says she would forgo saving for her daughter's future education fund to pay off her own. >> you need to live in a house. you need to pay groceries. you need to eat. and from there on, you kind of have to figure out where to skip and save. >> reporter: it's a harsh reality for 28 million borrowers like wood. the government's years-long pandemic freeze on student loan payments ends today. the average borrower owes more than $37,000 in debt. for borrowers with a master's degree, nearly $92,000. >> it's not great. >> reporter: economist mark vandy says the restart of these payments will add to the financial stress borrowers are already feeling with inflation. >> i think most student loan borrower, it means they have to make some hard choices. >> i really want stabilitier us.

>> reporter: 33-year-old michael loemsz in anaheim, california, is a first-generation college graduate who went on to get his master's in social work, and now owes about $240,000 in student debt. he says the freeze on payments opened up an avenue to another major first in his family. this is your house! buying a home with his wife, a baby now on the way. >> like, i don't know if we'll ever own a home, and the fact that we were able to do that because of the pause was just, like, i mean, mind blowing. >> reporter: he homed it could lead to broader student debt reform. >> i've become more plugged into politics than i ever have in my life. >> reporter: as a presidential candidate, joeshgd pledged he would cancel thousands of dollars in student debt, eventually following through a year and a half into his term. >> congress created the department of education, we will forgive $10,000 in outstanding federal student loans.

>> reporter: but ten months later, the supreme court struck down the plan, leaving millions of borrowers like lopez disappointed. do you feel like president biden let you down? in some ways, yes. i al recognize nobody is perfect, can't get it 100% right. but that's also why he is president. that responsibility is on his shoulder. >> reporter: critics of loan forgiveness say so many americans had to pay their own debt, why should this generation be any different? >> yes, there are focused who have worked for it and were able to pay. mind you, some of those folks paid a lot less than what we're paying these days. but, you know, that's a privilege to be able to do that, right. >> reporter: after the supreme court's decision, with loans still scheduled to restart this fall, the president launched a narrower plan b. he directed the education department to try to cancel debt through a different law, established a one-year grace period for borrowers who missed payments, and wrote out a new plan that could lower people's monthly payments. but lopez and woods say their

backup plans aren't broad enough to affect them, and their debt will still be looming large at the ballot box. is student loan debt an issue you will vote on in the 2024 election? >> absolutely. it's essentially one of the major issues of our generation and of our time. >> reporter: for "this week," elizabeth schulze, abc news, washington. thanks to elizabeth for that important story. washington. >> we will be bright r right back.

election? before we go, we want to wish a special happy birthday to jimmy carter, the longest living american president. he turns 99 today. he made a rare public appearance last week with his wife seven

months after entering hospice care. we wish both of them all the best. thank you for sharing part of your sunday with us. have a great day. you're in the bay area this morning now that a government shutdown has been averted. but it's just the start o

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